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Stanton Law Has Figured Out Scaling Your Law Firm

November 01, 201930 min read

From Solo to Success: How Todd Stanton Grew Stanton Law into a 10-Attorney Firm

Law Firm Growth Podcast Episode 5: Disrupting Business Litigation and Keys to Authentic Networking with Todd Stanton

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Todd Stanton: [00:00:00] First time that we went over seven figures. I had 15 matters for my client that build more than 15, 000. So that's picking up a lot of nickels and that's going towards the smaller issues and realizing that I would rather hit a bunch of singles than sitting there waiting on a home run.

Narrator: Welcome to the law firm growth podcast, where we share the latest tips, tactics, and strategies for scaling your practice from the top experts in the world of growing law firms.

Narrator: Are you ready to take your practice to the next level? Let's get started.

Jan Roos: I'm your host, Jan Roos, and I'm here today with Todd Stanton of Stanton Law. So Todd's been practicing business law based out of Atlanta for the past few years and has been the law firm 500 posting a really impressive over 140 percent growth last year.

Jan Roos: So thanks for your time, Todd, and welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to talk. So we kind of got the high level overview, but would you mind telling us a little bit more about sort of the origin story and how you got to where you are today?

Todd Stanton: [00:01:00] I'm an HR lawyer, and all I've done since graduating law school at the University of Georgia in 2002 is practice management side employment law, representing businesses with their employment law issues, whether it's onboarding or policies, and then all the way through separations and litigation when it comes to that.

Todd Stanton: Went through big law for about nine years, until 2011, when it dawned on me that all lawyers are self employed. And I was looking at what partnership looked like for the big firm, and it was not something that was enticing to me. And figured that if I were going to be self employed, I might as well truly do it.

Todd Stanton: And went out in November of 2011 and started Stanton Law as a solo practice designed to help small and medium sized businesses and entrepreneurs deal with their employment law issues. It's been a good ride since. We've expanded. We're now at 10 attorneys. It broadened out from pure HR law, which is Still my focus to more commercial issues, but we also have a new transactional team and with a tax emphasis and succession planning component, [00:02:00] we have a intellectual property and trademark attorney who's generating revenue for us as well.

Todd Stanton: So a good ride over the past seven years. I'm looking forward to a dozen or so more.

Jan Roos: Yeah, that sounds awesome. So basically that's a pretty impressive growth. So I'm solo to 10 attorneys in a mere seven years of I'm doing the math, right? One of the things you brought up that I want to dig into, and I think this is pretty important, especially in the world of corporate law, when people put their shingle out and just say that they're a business attorney, you know, automatically you're in the same, you know, same category.

Jan Roos: Competition with competition with the same firms as, you know, the Paul Weiss's of the world. But the thing that focus that you initially took on HR law is pretty interesting because, you know, one of the things we'll talk about on the show a lot is the importance of having a niche. But that being said, you guys seem to have branched out a little bit further.

Jan Roos: So would you mind telling me a little bit about those early years when you're focusing on the HR side of things, how that ended up influencing how you guys started scaling out the attorney base?

Todd Stanton: That's a lot of questions in there, but my emphasis on employment law was a function of marginal grades my first year in law school, and I recognized pretty [00:03:00] quickly that I was not going to be with B pluses and B minuses and various first year classes was not going to be an eligible candidate for the white sheet law firms that I had originally anticipated working for it.

Todd Stanton: And so what I did instead was pick the area that was most intriguing to me, which at the time was and still is employment law, and focused on those courses and then was able to make a pitch to several boutique firms that don't pay attention to that civil procedure mark or that criminal mark and instead look at my good grades and work in the employment law world, which is what you were going to hire me to do.

Todd Stanton: That worked, and that got me started down that path. As I started into the practice, though, one of the things I realized is that my billable rate times the number of hours that I'm willing to work was not going to get me to the income thresholds that we needed as a family. And so that's when I started adding the other attorneys.

Todd Stanton: Our model at Fenton Law is such that I look at the other attorneys in my firm who are all W 2 employees, but I look at them as my customers as well. And I [00:04:00] preach to them over and over again that they are responsible for their own practice and their practice development. We provide the administration for them and associate support and practice management software.

Todd Stanton: Tax advisory or 401k and health insurance and all of those, there's incidentals with bigger firms, but they're responsible for doing it and in exchange for that, they give me a portion of their collections. That is where the majority of the family income comes from, is providing those support services for those other attorneys as we form the nucleus of a collaborative firm and provide cross selling to our various clients, marketing efforts and those sorts of things.

Todd Stanton: So, with respect to how we distinguish it from from other firms, everybody's a good lawyer, and our approach to employment law is a bit different in that we, we emphasize practical solutions rather than punching people in the nose through protracted litigation, trying to get our clients back to business as soon as possible, because as we all know, litigation is expensive and disruptive, and particularly so for, for employment issues.

Todd Stanton: So we emphasize that, [00:05:00] and then we emphasize the fact that we're a more approachable firm. Dogs running around our office, we have a concrete floor with a garage door. Our clients find that very comfortable and inviting and certainly a lot less intimidating than headed down to a midtown monolith on the 32nd floor.

Jan Roos: Very interesting. And then as far as the kind of clientele that you guys are looking at, do you differentiate based on like who ends up kind of resonating with the sort of vibe that you guys are putting out there more?

Todd Stanton: Well, there's two kinds. We've built our, our practice on small and medium sized businesses.

Todd Stanton: Some of our operators with anywhere from 2 to 150 employees, and that's gotten us over the 7 figure mark for the past couple years, and is responsible for a lot of the growth that you mentioned earlier. As we've gotten to that though, we recognize that there's a need to be filled for much larger clients.

Todd Stanton: As we handle the relatively low consequence HR matters for bigger companies, we represent a couple large, much larger companies, 100, 000 plus employees, down to 10, 000 employees, and handle their EEOC [00:06:00] charges, their demand letter, their any of their contested separations. On a flat rate for clients and are able to squeeze some efficiencies out of those matters and put it towards our bottom line while while getting the busy in house counsel at those larger companies, the more bandwidth to handle their strategic issues rather than worrying about.

Todd Stanton: Like I said, the relatively low consequence and tested separations in their shops,

Jan Roos: right? And then, you know, this is actually a very classic business model of a disruption where you're kind of looking at some less competitive, less attractive to some of these larger firms. And some of these, I mean, it's obviously like, you know, seven figures of business to be made on focusing on these issues that a lot of these other firms aren't paying attention to.

Todd Stanton: It's also more than that. It's not only something that they don't want to do when they do it, when those larger firms do, and they do it well, obviously they're good lawyers too. They approach it as a loss leader. They're looking for litigation at the end of the EEOC charge or for contested separation.

Todd Stanton: They're looking for 120, 000, 150, 000 worth of fees over the [00:07:00] next 18 months if that cycles through the federal court. We provide profit center level attention to the EEOC charge or the dispute itself. And don't, don't necessarily want to vie for the, the ultimate litigation if it turns into that. Very few of them do.

Todd Stanton: We can handle litigation if necessary, but our focus is on that. We are intentional about that lower level. We're not just tolerating it in hopes of something else.

Jan Roos: Yeah, that's really interesting. And I would say, you know, in today's society, when people tend to see lawyers and think litigation and sort of, you know, put up the cross, like they're seeing a vampire in an 80s movie, I'm sure it's very comforting to know that you guys are really dedicated towards resolving things in a way that isn't as expensive for your client.

Todd Stanton: Let me give you a quick example on that. In 2016, the first time that we went over seven figures, I had 15 matters for my client that billed more than 15, 000. So that's picking up a lot of nickels. And that's going towards the smaller issues and realizing that I would rather hit a bunch of singles and [00:08:00] sitting there waiting on a home run.

Todd Stanton: And it's been effective and clients appreciate knowing that they're going to head into something that is contentious and disruptive, but that they're going to come out of it with a 7, 500 bill rather than a 75, 000 bill. And I would say, I can't promise that for everybody, but that's, that's our approach and we back it up with the numbers.

Jan Roos: Yeah. And back to the strategy thing, you know, it's a, it looks like everyone's kind of looking for these home runs, but you know, there's definitely a business to be made if you're just. I mean, essentially it turns from the giant client stakes and handshakes deal with closing to, you know, getting a lot of those smaller volume businesses and just scaling as a volume business, essentially, as instead of just a whale hunter.

Todd Stanton: Yeah. You know, we're small enough. We can still provide all the personalized client service for these things, and we have the capacity to handle the bigger clients because they're a little more sterile towards these things, but certainly hand holding the entrepreneur and the, and the medium sized business center through this is, is where we've, where we've made our,

Jan Roos: Very, very interesting niche positioning.

Jan Roos: So Todd, I want to transition the conversation a little bit into how you guys are getting these clients. [00:09:00] I'm sure referrals are a big part of your business, but you know, it seems like there's almost this kind of inscrutable way that a lot of these White shoe law firms that you've worked at. It's like, you know, you have this 150 year record that they've been doing.

Jan Roos: They've got the big partners. They've been doing it forever. But how does one really break into as a new business law firm, getting these new clients for the first time? And how are you guys able to do that?

Todd Stanton: I'd like to take credit for this. One of the firms at which I work, the last one, Brian Cave, and Brian Cave had a very strong emphasis on practice development and associated business development, and sort of set up a paradigm to a partner named Steve Sunshine, who I greatly admire, and Steve really empiricized practice development and relationship marketing.

Todd Stanton: So he went out and looked at what qualifies somebody as a rainmaker, and what he discovered is that these folks don't do anything they don't want to do. They hang out with the people they like, they keep in touch with their friends, and with those who may share common interests. And they develop their business out of those relationships, through [00:10:00] referrals, and through references, through the waiting for an attorney, I mean, waiting for a contact to move into a position where they can decide who gets their business.

Todd Stanton: But since you're hanging out with somebody you like anyway, it's certainly not a chore, it's not a wasted effort, and you never know where business is going to come from, so you might as well be around the people you like while you're waiting for them. And by spreading a lot of those seeds and maintaining those deep, meaningful relationships with folks and developing them, that business comes about, takes a lot of patience, takes a lot of phone calls, and it takes a lot of intentional effort to maintain those contacts and relationships, but it eventually pays off.

Todd Stanton: And when somebody selects Stanton Hall to be their lawyer based upon those relationships rather than something a little more superficial like Price or RFP, they're more likely to be bought into our approach to dispute resolution. They're more likely to take our advice and we spend a lot less time swimming upstream and arguing with clients who might be tire kicking or shopping around for Price or somebody who looks more like a lawyer than we might.

Jan Roos: That's [00:11:00] really interesting because, you know, networking is one of those things that it seems like every single firm has to do it on some level. This is the first time I've spoken to somebody who's kind of come up with that approach they're taught as far as, you know, not trying to make it as, you know, how many bar association happy hours, how many BNI meetings can I hit, but actually doing the kind of stuff that's going to actually resonate with you personally and not be a waste of your time and something that you enjoy regardless.

Jan Roos: But I'm sure, you know, they kind of. Connections that you end up making through those it's more genuine, which I mean, even within the realm of referrals, which are probably the strongest in terms of close rate across the board for most law firms, I would even say that the referrals that come from that are probably stronger than your referral in general.

Todd Stanton: Well, yes. I mean, certainly I rely a ton on other. Small and medium sized practitioners who don't do, at my end, employment law. And, you know, employment law is, it's not rock and sugar. I mean, not many people graduate valedictorian from law school and go into employment law, but it is particular, and you have to know it.

Todd Stanton: And a general commercial practitioner who's not familiar with the ins and outs of the FLSA is going to screw it up. And so [00:12:00] getting in front of those general practitioners or the corporate guys or anything else who can issue spot and send it our way. Yeah, those are huge referrals. And it has been a big source of business.

Todd Stanton: And certainly I would be talking to you about that.

Jan Roos: You guys have done a lot of it seems like, you know, in the acquisition of the other nine, a term, well, not acquisition, but in scaling the firm from, from, Yeah. Yeah. Scaling up from one attorney down to 10. I mean, it seems like the way in which you've done this has been very deliberate.

Jan Roos: The cross sells that you mentioned earlier and being able to kind of take the one person who might have that employment related issue and then get them into the IP or, or, you know, any of the other attorneys that you've added to the practice, you know, that must've been a very interesting thing. So could you tell us a little bit about how you prioritize those first hires and how things have changed and what it might look like today?

Jan Roos: Okay.

Todd Stanton: The first couple of hires were out of, they were lifestyle hires. I wanted to bring in more junior attorneys to do the work that I didn't feel like doing anymore and focus my efforts on more business development. Our first hire, Elizabeth Ziegler, is still with us and she's turned into an outstanding young attorney.

Todd Stanton: So, [00:13:00] those first hires were out of looking into the MHR world and now though, as I look at folks, I look at anybody with a management side practice, anybody with a business side, A book of business or potential book of business and say, are these people going to be intentional about developing their work, developing their practice and do they need a platform from which to do it?

Todd Stanton: And if that's the case, then I have a spot for, you know, we can, we can leverage the overhead I already have in place and the lessons I've learned and starting a small firm and they either can bring over to Stanton law, their existing structure, or we'll give them a place from which they can go out and build the practice.

Todd Stanton: They've always envisioned for themselves. We're a very self directed bunch. And so I look for a strong entrepreneurial spirit and the people that we're trying to bring up as well as somebody who's going to appreciate the value that we provide to them in that back office support for their endeavor.

Jan Roos: Right. So you're getting a real win win here when you're finding the right person. And I'm sure that it's definitely, certainly challenging to find people that fit that, but you know, it sounds like it's working [00:14:00] out pretty well now. As far as. The process to get here, were there any sort of challenges that you guys ran into when you're rolling out this model?

Todd Stanton: I thought about that as we were getting ready for this call. And yeah, I mean, nobody knows what they're doing when they start this and you run into challenges that you never saw. And I think that the biggest one that I found is what I started referring to as chasing overhead. And that every time I add a new feature to our service offering to our attorney, or we add a new attorney in general, that creates.

Todd Stanton: Additional overhead for us that I have to go out and find the revenue for that we have to go out and find the revenue for to cover and then provide a return on that investment. I mean, if it's not enough to keep my net profit the same by adding more complications, adding more complications to my life every day.

Todd Stanton: So figuring out a way to leverage what we have and. Not add additional costs is the biggest challenge that we've faced. Just we faced a new challenge as well. We hired a new admin who came on board for about five or six weeks. [00:15:00] She interviewed very well. We were very hopeful about the initiative that she was going to show and that she was going to help us get more processes in place to squeeze even more efficiencies out.

Todd Stanton: And after about three weeks, it was a different person started showing up for it. And we had to let her go this week. Well, I didn't think about that on Monday. By Wednesday, I'm now back in the market for a new admin having to go do a hiring practice again. So, yeah, you never know what's coming down the pike.

Todd Stanton: And you're always looking for that rather elusive equilibrium, it being just right.

Jan Roos: Yeah, I mean, essentially, you kind of get into this area of forecasting because you're mentioning things like, you know, projected ROI and stuff. Now, how do you go about it? I just wanted to kind of dig into a little bit on your thought process on how you might be modeling these things out and like what really goes into making a decision for adding, you know, a new feature or a new source of overhead for the practice, any metrics, that kind of thing.

Jan Roos: I'd

Todd Stanton: like to say there's a polar bullet. A lot of it's a guess. I recently took a business school class, and we talked about forecasting and that, and I came [00:16:00] out of it with the notion that forecasting isn't going to be perfect, but you have to start somewhere, and you forecast some numbers based upon what you feel, what your research tells you, what your customers are telling you.

Todd Stanton: What you see in the, in the marketplace and you, you take a guess and then you revisit it a couple of weeks, a couple of months and see whether or not your guesses were any good. And then you get to, you may dial it back, you may ramp it up. You have to understand that if, if you don't take a little bit of risk, nothing ever gets done.

Todd Stanton: I'm fortunate enough to A wife who is a business school graduate who is a financial analyst. So she's able to help project some of the numbers to tell me whether it's a good idea or more often than not it's a bad idea. And we work through it. There's no magic to it. You just gotta put your work clothes on and get

Jan Roos: to business.

Jan Roos: We've spoken with attorneys all over the spectrum. Solo practice is, you know, probably up to the medium size. But as far as the actual Quantitative forecasting and that kind of stuff. It's, it's really one of those things. It's kind of reserved. It makes more sense, the more data that one has in the business.

Jan Roos: And the thing is that a lot of the times [00:17:00] at the smaller level, especially if somebody is trying something for the first time, it's kind of the scariest thing because you want more certainty than there is out there. So, you know, you've kind of hit on something really important there, Todd, which is like, you know, the, the ability to just move forward and.

Jan Roos: Make a decision. And I'd say like absent of the, the, having the hard quantitative data, which, you know, at the end of the day really is based on some subjective criteria. You know, it's, you can give yourself kind of the safety blanket of having some numbers of, of, but at the end of the day, you know, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

Jan Roos: You know, I guess sort of the other alternative is kind of treating things as, you know, what is the, is this a decision that's going to sink the firm? If we go forward, we're not going to work. And if that's not the case, more often than not, extra deliberation is just going to be delaying, finding out something that's going to, you know, that's going to happen anyway.

Todd Stanton: Well, there's two parts to that. Number one, you talked about data collection. You know, most of our practice management systems, one called Cosmolex, and we've been pleased with Cosmolex, but there is a ton of information in there that we just [00:18:00] don't know how to access yet. I mean, most software products that anybody uses, I think we're only brushing the surface of the resources that it could, it can lend to the process.

Todd Stanton: We just, we've got to figure out how to get it out of there. The reporting mechanisms for, for our practice management system are likely a ton more robust than what we're using. And that data is going to help us once we start looking at the reports and charting that out is going to be helpful. The, the other part is that the risk that, that we're taking.

Todd Stanton: I shared the decision making process with others in the firm. I got a bunch of smart people at work at Stanford. And each of them bring a little something different to it, and by talking these things through, I end up with a better idea at the end of this than my original thought standard in the shower.

Todd Stanton: So it's, it's being patient as that idea grows and evolves and shapes into something that is actually going to help us grow revenue. Great job for those reps. Yeah, it's just, it is, it's not, it's not instantaneous.

Jan Roos: Yeah, absolutely. Now, looking back at your journey, Todd, do you have any advice that you'd have given yourself, you know, [00:19:00] when you left the big law firm, when you're starting out, things you would have done differently, that kind of thing.

Todd Stanton: I have two things. The first one I learned while I was trying to get out to start my own firm, and when I asked other people who had done it what they would have done differently, without fail, the answer was that they would have done it earlier. I don't know that I could have, and I echo that, I would have done it earlier.

Todd Stanton: I don't know that I could do it after 4 years of big firm practice, 5 years of big firm practice, or 7, but if I had started 2 or 3 years earlier, then I would be 2 or 3 years ahead of where I am right now. So, I think the sooner you pull the trigger, I get out. The better. Right? That would be one. The second part of it is that I would've found a piece of practice management software that I liked and I would've built my firm around that practice management software.

Todd Stanton: Cosmo X would've been a good choice rather than come up with my model for how I was gonna run a firm and then trying to find software to fit within that firm. Those software developers, be they tabs or, or Clio, or Rocket Matter or, or [00:20:00] cos X, they're all designed around with. Their developers wanted as a firm, not what I wanted as a firm.

Todd Stanton: And so to squeeze those packages into what we're trying to do is sometimes a clunky fit. And we don't get it exactly the way we want. We've had to make compromises and adjustments. Whereas if I had started my firm, With a particular piece of software, I think it would be a, it would have been a smoother growth curve than what we've experienced.

Jan Roos: Let's talk about that transition a bit more, Todd. So, you guys ended up when was it that you ended up switching to Cosmolax?

Todd Stanton: Right at the beginning of 2016. So, we are now two full years into, two and a half years into Cosmolax. Gotcha.

Jan Roos: And then, you know, you guys have obviously had some pretty strong growth in the last couple of years.

Jan Roos: So, I mean, it definitely was a transition that worked now. This is something that we kind of run into with, I mean, basically any sort of scaling, but in a lot of people that are going from the solo to multiple practice thing, there's this point at which you have to kind of take some time off the table, take some revenue off the table, take some managerial resources off the [00:21:00] table to do this.

Jan Roos: And it's also kind of speculative in the same sense that, you know, doing a new initiative, what, what was it like going through that process? And, you know, how did you find the time to do that?

Todd Stanton: Finding the time to do it. How do you find the time to do anything when you're in a entrepreneurial environment?

Todd Stanton: You squeeze more out of each day. You work when you don't necessarily feel like it or you just extend your deadlines, understanding that there's probably not a drop dead date for something, an initiative like a migration to a new practice management. It ultimately gets done if you make an incremental steps to it and don't put it down.

Todd Stanton: Ours was really born out of necessity because our previous software, Clio, didn't allow us to run payroll as efficiently as we needed to because of the way that our payroll is so intimately tied to collection. And so Cosmolex allows us to assign matter, Percentages for responsibility to each particular issue, such as our originating attorney gets 12 percent of a collection.

Todd Stanton: The collections that are the responsible attorney gets 20 [00:22:00] percent and Cosmolix allows us to set those percentages up prospectively, such that when we get the collection in and run payroll. The collection allocation report, I'm not going to say it runs itself, but it's certainly more streamlined than what it was under CLIA.

Todd Stanton: So we had a, we had an impetus to do this, and I recognized that our old system was not going to allow me to recruit new attorneys, that our existing attorneys were becoming fewer and fewer. I'm frustrated with that payroll process. So we set it about, I had a good assistant at the time who I tasked with making sure that we did the migration as best we could with any migration of any system.

Todd Stanton: There's going to be hiccups. And I think you anticipate that and you recognize that it's going to, it may not be perfect. seamless and we'll absorb these bumps as best we can. Understanding that there's a longer term goal. And I mean, two years later, we're in good shape and take a full two years, but certainly Looking back, I would make the same decision.

Todd Stanton: That's to be sure.

Jan Roos: Essentially came from a point of pain. Like you could no longer continue in the way that you guys were. So, you know, there was the, the only thing that would have been the [00:23:00] bad decision would have been to stay where you guys were at. All right. Yeah. As far as as next steps, you guys had a great year last year.

Jan Roos: Wow. What's next for the Stan law firm?

Todd Stanton: We are continuing to grow. I think that the practice model is good. There is room for two or three additional attorneys on that management side practice that we talked about. I look forward to maybe reeling in a couple that we have on the hook right now and finding out if there's any other attorneys out there who would like this to practice in this entrepreneurial world without having the headaches.

Todd Stanton: starting their own practice. So that's certainly one area of it. The business class that I referenced earlier has given me a paradigm in which I can help other attorneys within the firm, that's the word I'm looking for, incubate a growth opportunity through forecasting, through marketing, through the leadership that it's going to take to grow that new market or the new product that they, legal product that they want to offer.

Todd Stanton: And so I'm really looking forward to applying that, that paradigm. to the attorneys within Stanton Law and growing revenue in that way and hopefully adding those attorneys and then hiring a new associate [00:24:00] or two as we, as we move

Jan Roos: forward. Great stuff. And then as far as the best place to find you online, like who are you looking to speak to and then what's the best place to find you?

Todd Stanton: So there's probably three. Good question. There's three areas of focus right now. One is that attorney who would like to learn more about what practice and stance law would look like. That, looking at recruiting those customers is, is always in the back of my mind. And something that's a revenue multiplier for me individually.

Todd Stanton: The second group is the, the entrepreneur, the smaller, medium sized business who might be looking for this as a way to get their HR or commercial contracts or whatever their litigation, potential litigation matters off their plate. We'd also be looking for larger in house counsel who are looking to handle those lower costs.

Todd Stanton: But then the last and perhaps most important is the other lawyers who might be listening to this who are not experts in employment law and have clients who might be getting ready to step in a big pile of employment law due. We can help them avoid it or get them out of it if they already have. So [00:25:00] those three, those three segments are the ones that I really target.

Todd Stanton: They can always find me on the web at www.stantonlawllc.com and our office line is 404 881 1288. Yeah,

Jan Roos: this has been a really fascinating conversation, Todd. So for anyone who's trying to like, you know, read between the lines and see what's kind of driving Todd success here. Like we can tell that a lot of focus on the form of, of your firm and how it ends up supporting it is, is really interesting.

Jan Roos: And he's clearly taking a very intentional route as far as the niching, not only in the area that he's practicing in, but the type of people he's going after and the way that he's going after them. And, you know, when you end up. Carving out a niche for yourself just becomes so much easier to do these things.

Jan Roos: And, you know, that's how you end up getting these kinds of results. So thank you so much for taking the time to talk to really appreciate it.

Todd Stanton: You bet. I appreciate the opportunity. I look forward to continuing the conversation with you again at some point and wish you the best with case fuel.

Jan Roos: All right.

Jan Roos: Fantastic. All right, guys. So thanks for listening to another episode and we will see you guys next week on the case fuel podcast. [00:26:00]

Narrator: Thank you for listening to the Law Firm Growth Podcast. For show notes, free resources, and more, head on over to casefuel. com slash podcast. Looking forward to catching up on the next episode.

Scaling a law practiceForecasting revenue for lawyersLawyer-client relationship buildingReferral marketing for attorneysTodd Stanton
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Brian Murphy

Brian Murphy is the CTO of CaseFuel. He's managed millions of dollars in ad spend and has built the digital infrastructure that has aided hundreds of attorneys turning leads into cases

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