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Law Firm Growth Podcast Episode 60: What you need to know heading into 2021 with Moshe Amsel

Narrator: [00:00:00] Welcome to The Law Firm Growth podcast, where we share the latest tips, tactics, and strategies for scaling your practice from the top experts in the world of growing law firms. Are you ready to take your practice to the next level? Let's get started.

Jan Roos: Hey, everybody, welcome back to The Law Firm Growth podcast. I'm your host, as always, Jan Roos, and I am here with recurring guest friend of the pod, Moshe Amsal. So for those of you who have heard one of his two prior episodes, no introduction is needed, but for those who are hearing Moshe for the first time, he is one of my favorite people in the space.

Jan Roos: He is among other things, the owner of dream builder, financial originator of the firm 10 X differentiator effect, just try to do off the key from for your intro to your podcast, which I listened to every week. And also I wouldn't say necessarily recently, but the, I would say impresario of The Law Firm Growth [00:01:00] summit, which is going to be coming up very soon.

Jan Roos: So thanks for coming back on the show.

Moshe Amsel: Yon, it is my absolute pleasure to be here again, and I'm honored to be the triplicate, the three Pete on the show, but I don't get tired of podcasting 165 episodes at the time of this recording of my podcast, the profit with law podcast says, Hey, I like to talk and I like to be behind the microphone.

Moshe Amsel: Anytime you want to have me, I, it's my pleasure to be here and I appreciate you sharing your space and allowing me to have a conversation with you and in your listeners

Jan Roos: ears. All right. Awesome, man. The pleasure is all mine. I'm sure to be all to the listeners as well. But yeah, we got a lot of, I'm trying to think last time we spoke was Pre COVID I'm trying to think.

Jan Roos: So a lot has changed in the last little bit for sure. We're recording this first week of 2021, a lot of positive energy heading into the new year and a lot of stuff that's obviously been changing in the last year. Not only in response to COVID, but certainly accelerated by COVID. One of the things I heard you say in a recent podcast was that COVID really forced the law [00:02:00] industry to top for another five years.

Jan Roos: So I guess what's top of mind for you heading into 2021.

Moshe Amsel: I want to take you back to something that I heard from Simon Sinek that really made an impression on me and I brought it into the legal space and I'm using it a lot now and that is if you look at the history of Blockbuster and Netflix, look at those two companies and you say what Blockbuster go on go wrong.

Moshe Amsel: Blockbuster was the premier. Movie rental business, right? It would have been a natural shoe in for them to become the Netflix that we know today, right? Look at other companies like Barnes and Noble would have been a shoe in to be Amazon, right? Why did Amazon take them over? What happened with these companies?

Moshe Amsel: And if you look at the story of blockbuster, what happened was the CEO at the time went to his board of directors and said, look, there's this little company, Netflix that has this really cool idea with their mail and DVDs. And they also have this. Online streaming of videos. It was brand new then.

Moshe Amsel: And he said, this is a great model that they came up with. We should do the [00:03:00] same. And the board of directors said, no, we're not going to do the same because 13 percent of our revenue. comes from late fees. And I use that example because we know that Blockbuster is gone, right? And Netflix is now the ruler of the entertainment business.

Moshe Amsel: Although there's a lot of competitors get entering the space, including Disney. But the point is that Blockbuster was so stuck in their current business model that they Weren't willing to see the future and that's what's happening with law right now. And it's been happening with law for years, but this acceleration is highlighting it.

Moshe Amsel: And that is that the old business model for law. Is not going to work in the future. The consumers are getting smarter. The consumers are realizing they have options and people are demanding certain things from their lawyers. And if they don't get it, they're going to find another way to get their legal [00:04:00] work done.

Moshe Amsel: And it's, this is the time. The time is now for us to look at that and to say, okay, how do I just assume, That the past is the past forget how I currently run my business and look at the future and say, what does the future look like? And how do I position myself to be that law firm? The one that 15 years from now, everybody says, Oh, I got to go to this firm because they do X, Y, and Z.

Moshe Amsel: And it's a tough task to give you, right? It's a tough task to be like. How do I see the future? And what do I, but the writing is on the wall. Like you can look around and you can see the different things that are happening. Different business models around how you price your services, different business models around how you sell your services.

Moshe Amsel: How many of the people listening to this podcast. The law firm owner or the rainmaker and you're doing your own selling. Why is an attorney who's good at being an attorney, trying to be a good salesman, bring a fricking salesman on your team. [00:05:00] Why are you trying to bill by the hour when nobody wants hourly billing?

Moshe Amsel: You don't want it. The client doesn't want it. You want it because it's the only way that you've been able to define. What you're worth. So define it differently in a way that everybody's happy. If you start looking at every piece of the business, how we market ourselves, how many people have embraced digital marketing in the true sense?

Moshe Amsel: How many of them are really using it properly? Or are we still relying on writing blog post articles to, and peer to peer referral, advertising to market our firm. When it comes to developing your team, how many of us are only looking in our current market? For staff and are we starting at the Oh, I need a paralegal.

Moshe Amsel: I need another lawyer. If you really break down the work that's happening in the firm, you probably only need one lawyer and you probably well, I shouldn't say that depends on the size of your firm. I'm not. You definitely will grow beyond [00:06:00] one attorney. If you have your sights on a larger firm, but there's a lot What kind of work your attorneys are doing that technology or a layperson or somebody with a list of instructions could probably do.

Jan Roos: And it's it's an interesting thing because it's like all these sacred cows started getting slaughtered at the same time. It's like for a lot of people, it's their best conversion mechanism was I have the best office. I have the most polite, prettiest secretary and their foot traffic was I'm in the best building in town and their marketing was I'm at the right cocktail parties.

Jan Roos: With the referral partners or the other attorneys that I want to have. And then, I think a lot of those people had a rude awakening, but I think fundamentally it's an interesting conjunction because I feel like the game changed with COVID, but people, if it took them this long, I think a lot of people have.

Jan Roos: Sort of that renewed energy with the whole, the start of a new year, which everyone does, but that's why I think it's such a powerful time to be reconsidering this thing, obviously, and taking a holistic approach and reconsidering these from a first principle. I'm like, that old and then with your accounting background, zero based [00:07:00] accounting, what do you really want to bring into 2021?

Jan Roos: What can you leave behind in 2020 and the world that may not exist anymore with, again, not that COVID is going to be forever, but it certainly has woken some people up.

Moshe Amsel: Yeah, absolutely. And you bring up a good point. Like what you focused on the fancy office. And that's a really good point. I'm holding in my hands, the 2020 legal trends report published by Clio and they did a analysis.

Moshe Amsel: They went to people and said, Hey, what is the number one reason that you would want to hire a law firm? And what is the, what they did was, is they gave them 10 criteria. They matched only two of them. And they said, between these two, Yeah, absolutely. Which is more important to you. And then they took another two in between these two, which are more important to you.

Moshe Amsel: It's called a max diff analysis. They did this analysis and dead last, both as far as this is, they did the analysis on how law firms achieve success according to lawyers and what makes a lawyer hireable according to consumers. And both of those analyses, both the lawyers [00:08:00] great ranking themselves on what drives their achievement and their clients ranking on what decide what that makes them decide to choose a lawyer dead last in both of those having a commercial office space.

Moshe Amsel: And in the same report, it highlights how you can save 10, 000 a year per attorney if you get rid of your office space. It's huge. I got started in the legal space because I got law firms as clients. And when I had five law firms as clients in my accounting business, I noticed a common denominator between all of them.

Moshe Amsel: They had fancy offices, they had staff, they had business coming in. And yet the owners were transferring personal funds every pay cycle to make payroll. We have a tendency to live beyond our means. We have a tendency to get into situations where we are trying to be. Fitting a mold or be better than the Joneses, that kind of mentality.

Moshe Amsel: And that's not going to make you win in business. What's going to make you win in business is [00:09:00] to recognize that. I have to be the best choice for customers to choose. I have to deliver the best service. For them to then rate me and tell other people about me. And I have to do that in a way that is profitable so that I'm getting what I need out of the business.

Moshe Amsel: And if you simplify your business to that, and you get to check all three of those boxes, you've won. The problem is that most people don't check all three of those boxes. And they're sacrificing one of the, those important keys. In order to try to get the others and that's not a winning formula.

Jan Roos: Yeah.

Jan Roos: It's actually interesting too. And I actually really liked this from your 2021 predictions podcast and you predicted a downtick in referrals. And I'm going to connect this to what we just said in the sense that. There is this kind of stuff that seems like it's more important to other attorneys than consumers.

Jan Roos: The thing that's weird is that it's been very hidden because referrals from other attorneys specifically are [00:10:00] such a major channel for people's marketing. So with that, at least on pause for a little bit, It's like that old Warren Buffett phrase, it's not until the tides out, we can see that who didn't have any swim trunks.

Jan Roos: So it's been skinny dipping. Yeah. But it's, such a powerful opportunity to revisit these things and, revamp them. So just as far as the trends from, maybe a digital marketing perspective or stuff that's been taking off, like against what are the things that are really exciting you that you've been seeing lately?

Moshe Amsel: Look I think that the number one thing is that lawyers should stop trying to figure out how to do their own marketing. And this is polar opposite from what I've told you 18 months ago. And I think that you need to be really selective in who you choose to help you with your marketing initiatives and marketing strategies.

Moshe Amsel: You need to have a holistic firm. You need to have somebody who can come up with a plan that evaluates all the possibilities. And then leads you in the right direction. And the biggest problem that we have is that marketing agencies there, there are agencies that just do SEO agencies that just do paid ads, [00:11:00] just do Google PPC, just do Facebook ads.

Moshe Amsel: And the problem is that there isn't one size fits all. There isn't one perfect answer for every single law firm. It all depends on how are people looking for you? And if they're not looking for you, how do you find them? And being able to identify that and figure out where you're going to be able to get your clients.

Moshe Amsel: So to think that you wouldn't try, let's see if you're a law firm owner, you wouldn't try to give your clients advice on the stock market. Right now, maybe you also trade stocks on the side, like I do. And then you're like, Oh, I'm a Jack of all trades. I do know all this stuff. But most people like, you know what your lane is and you stay in your lane.

Moshe Amsel: So why are we trying to depart from our lane and be the best marketer out there? hire a marketing agency who really knows what they're doing and let them use their talent and their expertise to make you the best lawyer. So I think that online marketing is essential. It's going to be the only [00:12:00] way to get business moving forward.

Moshe Amsel: I don't think referrals are going to be gone. But where do referrals come from social activities, right? If we're not hanging out in churches and synagogues, and we're not hanging out in PTA meetings, and we're not hanging out in men's clubs, and we're not hanging out on the golf course, and we're not going with friends to the theme park or whatever, like we're not getting together with.

Moshe Amsel: When do we have an opportunity to look at a friend and say, Hey, by the way, I've got this real estate deal coming up. Do you have a good attorney for me? Or, Hey, by the way, I'm drowning in credit card debt. I think I need, I'm bankrupt. Do you have a good bankruptcy attorney for me? That conversation never happened.

Moshe Amsel: Anyway, people are afraid to tell other people they're dirty laundry, but a friend of mine's getting divorced and I can refer a good family law attorney for him, right? How do I find out he's getting divorced? Because we happen to be hanging out at somebody's birthday party. My kid and his kid are in the same class.

Moshe Amsel: We're hanging out at the birthday party and all of a sudden he's like confiding in me about how his marriage is ending. That's how those things happen. So when we don't have these [00:13:00] social activities happening, that is going to eliminate the referral business that we naturally had coming in before.

Moshe Amsel: Networking functions, conferences, all that stuff is gone for now. It'll come back. But what's happened is that it's forced consumers to behave differently and how they find things. So it used to be that the first place I look is I'm going to look for a referral from a friend. But now the first place we look is we take out our phone and we Google it.

Moshe Amsel: And we look for the right person. So if the first place I'm looking for an attorney is on Google, then the first thing that an attorney should be doing is making sure that they've got a ton of five star reviews, because that's, what's going to make my decision about whether I should even check them out or not.

Moshe Amsel: It's not about who ranks first in a query. It's about who's got enough stars and numbers next to those stars. on that search engine result, that's going to catch my attention. And that's why I think that my friend Andy Stickle has [00:14:00] gone on all in on reviews right now. And he's going to be doing a session at The Law Firm Growth summit around how reviews drive your, not just your sales, but also your customer service and your, everything that you do in your firm.

Moshe Amsel: I think that's where we're heading. I think that, It's more important to focus on getting as many reviews as you can, than it is to try to figure out how to, make the next Facebook live recently, I got into clubhouse and there's going to always be another app. There's going to always be another thing that and by the way, for anybody who's listening to this, it's on clubhouse.

Moshe Amsel: Come and follow me at profit with law. I'm hosting. Might have to ask you

Jan Roos: for an invite. Most that's, it's been the hottest thing in the block and most of the groups as well, a very short supply of out here.

Moshe Amsel: Just go in there and create your username. And because your cell phone number is in my contact list, I might get pinged by clubhouse to say, Hey Jan is waiting for an invite.

Moshe Amsel: Do you want to let him in? I don't have any invites right now at the time of this recording, but as soon as I get one, I'll be happy to send it. You're like,

Jan Roos: I didn't want to put you on the spot there, but it's pretty [00:15:00] interesting because we always, that's the thing. And we, yeah, you'd said this before.

Jan Roos: It's obviously who's to say when the whole pandemic situation is going to end, but in a lot of ways, the behavior. Constitutes a bell that can't really be unwrung. And the other thing too, is and I'll go on record with saying this, people always say referrals are the easiest things to close.

Jan Roos: No one's going to say that's going to lead to the most saleable business or the best SOPs or a business that's really going to grow without you. So I think on some levels too, it's if you were comfortable, but you knew it wasn't an ideal situation, it's a wake up call for a lot of people that they're going through right now.

Jan Roos: But yeah, one of the many things that are up in the air And another thing I want to bring in, it's something that you mentioned earlier, Moshe was now that we don't necessarily have the geographic constraint of an office, what kind of options are people been looking at in the last little bit?

Jan Roos: And again, this is stuff that's been around, but what have you seen the trends going in that direction?

Moshe Amsel: Yeah, exactly. What's happened is that it's forced your hand to embrace technology in a certain way. Anybody who has not been running with a practice management system of some kind or a CRM system of some kind has suddenly [00:16:00] realized, Hey, I need to have this because there's just no way we could deal with paper when we can't share that paper around the office, right?

Moshe Amsel: And many firms have already done this, and we're prepared, not intentionally to be virtualized. And I'm not saying that you need to be virtualized, but you have to be prepared for this to happen again. For those who have been saying that, Oh, this happens once every hundred or couple of hundred years, maybe, but it also doesn't get warmer by a couple of degrees or, like we're, we're going through global warming and we're, I think we're introducing, and I could be wrong about this, but I think we're introducing our own enemies with And I have no scientific background for this, but I think that the more that we introduce into the environment, the more that we create these monsters that end up, like all of a sudden there's more cancer than we've ever had before, where there's this, a new bug, that's this new pandemic.

Moshe Amsel: I think we see another pandemic, maybe not short order, maybe not five years from now, but I think within our lifetime, we're going to see another one. And [00:17:00] we have to be prepared for those eventualities. Maybe it's not a pandemic. Maybe it's something else, but what if. You can't go into your office. You have to still be able to function and not be a knee jerk reaction, but have a plan for that.

Moshe Amsel: So I think that we recognize why is Peloton still so popular because people recognize that I may never be able to rely on the gym as my only place to go work out. So people are building out their home gyms, even though it's not for just now, they want to be able to be healthy no matter what.

Moshe Amsel: It's going on in their life. So I need both. I need a gym and I need a home gym. So you look at these things, zoom, you can't get rid of zoom because now everybody uses zoom. So it makes a lot more sense for me to give the convenience of that to my potential clients and my existing clients to say, Hey, if you don't want to come into my office and meet with me.

Moshe Amsel: But instead hold a call over zoom. I can do that. And I'm happy to do that. You have to embrace those because who wants to drive across town to meet with you?

Jan Roos: [00:18:00] Yeah. And to like the Peloton example too, just a lot of the times these things that some people are finding as a, Oh my God, my business is going to shut down if I don't get this.

Jan Roos: The people that were running a virtual office, shout out to at least buoy, like when the pandemic hit, all right it was a Monday same business as usual. And The other thing too, is that even if you prepare something a lot of the times you have a more efficient situation than something that was just there because of inertia or just there because of like habits that you'd been carrying on for five or 10 or 20 years of running your practice.

Jan Roos: I

Moshe Amsel: agree with you a hundred percent. Look, I run my business virtually. I work out of my home. I have a really nice office in my home, but I have a Peloton in my office. I had that pre COVID. I also did a virtual summit pre COVID, right? I'm a big fan of not neat, not needing to travel anywhere.

Moshe Amsel: I think, when I started my business, I said, even if I'm going to have in person staff, they're coming to me, I'm not going to them. We waste enough of our life in the car as it is. [00:19:00] Why do we need to add a commute on top of that? And I'm not saying that everybody should have a virtual business and nobody should have an office.

Moshe Amsel: I think there's a reason for an office. There's a place for it. I also think that there's a place for in person staff. Like I, I think that it's great to have staff that could be anywhere that could be remote. But there's definitely value to be able to just turn to somebody and say, I need you to do XYZ.

Moshe Amsel: And then they look at you like they're baffled. And you say, wait, let me show you, you show them how to do it instead of sending somebody a Slack message. And then two days later, them sending a message back saying, I don't know how to do this thing. So there's a use case scenario for everything. The point is that.

Moshe Amsel: Our options are way bigger than they were before. And we need to redraw the map. We need to, there needs to be a new game plan for the law firm. And we need to add these new options into it. We need to create a new offense. We need to create a new defense. And I hate sports analogies, but I'm going to use it anyway, because people understand that.

Moshe Amsel: And they [00:20:00] understand that, Hey, I need to have a plan of attack. I need to know how I'm going to get clients and how I'm going to, how I'm going to bring the business in. Then I need to have a good defensive plan. I need to know that I have enough money in the bank to survive a catastrophe.

Moshe Amsel: I need to know that I have ways to operate in the event that something happens. So we need to be prepared for things, but we also need to figure out how to live in the new normal. And we have to marry those. It's easier to start a business today than it's ever been before. And it's harder to be successful in business today than it's ever been before.

Jan Roos: Yeah, I totally agree. And it's the stakes to getting it. And again, now it's you don't even have to have an office. So another part of that sword is, who cares? It's you're a zoom subscription away. I obviously a legal education and passing the bar, no, no small feet for sure, but from starting your own law firm, if you're considering just that, The the competition, but yeah, I think I couldn't think of a better segue to the expertise that you've gathered for The Law Firm Growth summit.

Jan Roos: So can you tell us more about how, what you have in store for this year and, what people might expect if they want to show up.

Moshe Amsel: Yeah, absolutely. So it [00:21:00] actually, and thank you for asking and giving me the opportunity to share about this event. Cause I'm super excited about it.

Moshe Amsel: If it's doesn't come through in my voice, it's a blessing to be able to bring these great people together and to share that knowledge with the people who are interested to come and spend three days with us last time we ran it. It was December of 2019 and it was a very different world. We were competing against in person conferences and we created a model that was A lot less interactive and a lot more do it at your own pace.

Moshe Amsel: Join us when you can kind of thing. So everything was pre recorded. We had a live Q and a each night and it was very well received. We had over 2, 300 law firm owners with us for that event. And a lot of people really had their lives changed at that event. We've had attorneys come back and say, I was floundering.

Moshe Amsel: I was going to close my doors and I picked up on X, Y, and Z at the event. And I completely turned my law firm around. One guy even said he had his best year ever this year [00:22:00] with COVID and everything because of the things that he implemented from The Law Firm Growth summit back in December of 2019.

Moshe Amsel: It's been amazing what we were able to do, but what happened this year is all the in person conferences went online and they all basically did that. They did. It was a bunch of, Hey, here's a bunch of recorded sessions. Come in and listen to them. And maybe we'll slap together a way for you to chat with some other people.

Moshe Amsel: And that was it. And I looked at it and I went to the vendors who sponsored last year. Yeah. And I went to the speakers who spoke and I went to the attendees who attended and I said, what is lacking in the current market right now? Everybody's gone virtual. Obviously there's a ton of these events out there.

Moshe Amsel: What do you want to see that you're not seeing right now? And my clients unanimously. Said we, we don't want to leave with a to do list, a mile long of things that we need to implement in our firm that we're never going to get to. We want to go to an event that we're going to have literal hands on workshops that we're going to be able to leave with something that we've already done, already created that we just need to implement when we get back.[00:23:00]

Moshe Amsel: And that really opened my eyes up to what the market needs. And then on top of that, there's also the social aspect and the interaction and being able to see other people and interact with other people. So we decided that we want to run this event live, completely live, nothing pre recorded and that's what we're doing, and as a matter of fact, I've even secured a physical stage, at least for myself, so that it feels even more real to the people who are attending, and, The, it's a wild thing to try to coordinate 40 speakers to attend something live at specific times, but hopefully we pull it all off with flying colors.

Moshe Amsel: I'm hoping our speakers want to attend the whole thing anyway, but definitely, for their sessions. But the way that we structured is we basically took these five areas that we think should be the key focused for law firm owners as they try to figure out how to position their firm for the future.

Moshe Amsel: And. If for each of those five key areas, we have a main stage session, that's going to [00:24:00] happen from there. We have a panel discussion where we're going to have six speakers on a panel that I'm going to host and ask them questions and create a dialogue. That's going to help bring out the expertise in each of them.

Moshe Amsel: And then from there, those panelists are going to break out into workshops and those workshops are each going to be hands on and for people who think, oh my gosh, I'm going to miss five of those six, right? If I go to one of them, yes. But a VIP ticket. We'll give you all the recordings so you can always go and catch the ones that you missed.

Moshe Amsel: If you, as long as you get a VIP pass, basically the intention is to take you on this journey that by the time that you leave the event, you've got everything you need to be able to just walk away and implement. And really crush it for 2021. And that's our goal. Our goal is to just make 2021 your best year ever, but not only that, set you up for success for the future, not just 2021, but beyond that.

Jan Roos: Yeah. You know what I hear? That's really interesting. Moshe, like the first thing is that you've taken an approach to [00:25:00] Really matching what's happening to the medium itself. You know what? It sounds and I've seen this from a lot of the conferences have been going on and just okay why don't we just copy and paste what a conference would be and move it online, but the reality is it's a different medium and there are some restrictions, you're not going to have that water cooler talk and the cocktail party and all that stuff, but there's a lot more opportunities to do other things, which is, it seems like you've really done.

Jan Roos: The other thing too and beyond. Making the actual presentation structure match that. This is actually new to me right now. I guess I have been listening to the pre thing, but apparently not close enough. I think the whole topic towards or like the whole trend towards having this active learning.

Jan Roos: And I can't tell you how many times I've gone to, I just have my notebook and I wedged it in the back of my suitcase. And then by the time I open it up and pick it up home, it just collects dust. You do three out of the other things too, but I guess also from this the. Strategic focus. I think it's good.

Jan Roos: And then as far as the people that are coming into, is this for new law owners is for people that are at a certain size or what's the target for the people who you think are going to get benefit out of this?

Moshe Amsel: That's a very good question. And [00:26:00] unfortunately it's hard to hone it in. I'll tell you who it's intended for.

Moshe Amsel: It's intended for anybody except anybody up until you think that you're. a big law firm. People have different definitions of small and medium. So if I say, Oh, it's for small law firms, it's not for medium law firms, then all of a sudden it's your own definition, right? The bottom line is that if you own a law firm or you're thinking about starting a law firm and you want to know how to position your law firm for success moving forward, you want to be there.

Moshe Amsel: I don't care what size you are. The bottom line is that law, the legal landscape is changing for everybody. As a matter of fact, I think the biggest threats. The people who should feel the most threatened are the largest law firms, because we're getting into this gig economy. We're getting into this place where it's each man for himself.

Moshe Amsel: We're probably going to even see law firms themselves that are like three or four attorneys might start using things like law clerk dot legal or things like that, where I bring on an attorney [00:27:00] just for specific projects when I need them. Whereas overflow rather than hiring an attorney with all the overhead of a full time staff member that I need to make sure they're busy all the time.

Moshe Amsel: And I could pay them what they want to earn and just pay them for the work that they're doing. Staffing and staff development is one key component in our event. We're going to have somebody, Brett Tremblay from get staffed up where they have virtual assistants that are in Central and South America.

Moshe Amsel: We're going to have, who else are we going to have? That's in there. I'm forgetting off the top of my head, but we're trying to open your eyes up to this idea that. Whatever you have assumed traditionally is the case is not necessarily the case moving forward. And all I want to do is over three days is open your mind to new possibilities.

Moshe Amsel: And if I open your mind to new possibilities, you've already taken the big leap that you need to take. You've already taken that step because [00:28:00] now you suddenly start realizing, wow, there is another way to do this. I've never imagined how that would be, but now I see how that can happen. Now let me look back and say, okay, how do I do this?

Moshe Amsel: I think that this event has the ability to really impact you in ways that you haven't Even started to consider.

Jan Roos: And it's really interesting too. I really liked the multi section version of that. And I can just I'm trying to think of a, there's actually a pretty recent example.

Jan Roos: So one of the things that I pushed to the side in growing case, as a matter of fact, was just our operations and organizational culture stuff. When I started getting into that, which was because I showed up for the wrong call for one of our consultants, I realized it was so impactful. And what I thought I totally had handled was a huge area of improvement.

Jan Roos: And we've been. Seeing huge dividends from doing that. So I think even if you have something that you think you have super handled, I think just the diversity of the speakers and like Moshe said, it's we've got 39 fantastic speakers, comma, Andy on roost, but anyways,

Moshe Amsel: I think that it's [00:29:00] important for people to hear your message.

Moshe Amsel: Because you're not, it's not just the fact that you've figured out this, the system for state planning attorneys, your system would work for anybody. And the idea is to just recognize that a system is needed, that if you can automate the process, if you can make sure the ball's not dropped, that's what's required to be relevant down the road.

Moshe Amsel: Like it used to be that you could charge whatever you want for your time and whoever was willing to pay for it, that was your business model. That's not the case anymore. And the consumers are really smart. They're going to be looking for somebody who's good at what they do, who, but it's not just that they're looking for a good customer service experience.

Moshe Amsel: They're looking for something that's affordable. If you have an open ended. Legal service. Hey, it's going to cost you. I don't know. X amount per hour, how many hours? I don't know. It could be 10. It could be a thousand. I can't tell you who wants to get into a situation like that. Imagine you [00:30:00] walk into the car dealer and they say, Oh, what do you want?

Moshe Amsel: Oh, I'm interested in the Honda pilot. Do you want the one that's 10 bucks or the one that's 50, 000? Or how about the 100, 000? They're all the same. Which one would you like,

Jan Roos: right? Yeah, absolutely. And it's it's such an important thing too. And just to not, I want to save some of it for the stage too, but for anyone just to as far as the breakout sessions and the talks that we're going to be doing, if you guys have been fans of the content that we've been doing around intake, obviously we've been having a huge focus on the state and elder planning firms the last year, but we're making this really accessible to any consumer facing practice area.

Jan Roos: And I'll leave it at that if that adds if doubling the amount of case files that you guys are closing without creasing your marketing spend and getting that efficiency up is interesting to you, then I'd suggest making it to my presentation. Yeah, no, I'm super excited to share as well.

Jan Roos: And I think, honestly that's one of the things too, especially for people who might be in a bit of a cash crunch heading into 2021. The solution isn't always to spend more in marketing. And I speak against my own interest as a marketer saying that, but it really has been super impactful for a lot of the friends we working with, but yeah, so we're going to have the show notes with [00:31:00] the link to sign up for the summit itself, but there's also one interesting thing that I am not qualified to talk about as far as the way that you have everything set up with just getting into the summit early.

Jan Roos: So can you tell us how that works, Moshe?

Moshe Amsel: Yeah. But before I do that, I just want to touch on a couple other things. So we want to make it more exciting for you because of that. We have invested heavily in a platform that's gonna allow us to provide the ability for you to network with others. And I think it's really important now more than ever.

Moshe Amsel: We're in the disconnected world. We feel isolated. We're on an island, and we're craving Human connection. And if you've ever been to an in person conference, how good you feel when you leave having met a bunch of people, or if you're an introvert and didn't meet anybody, how awfully you feel when you leave and you didn't meet anybody, but we have solutions for both of you.

Moshe Amsel: So we're going to, we're going to have a speed. Dating style networking event where we pair you with somebody, you don't have to go and pick somebody out from the room. We're just going to pair you with somebody. You're going to have a conversation with them. We're going to keep it to [00:32:00] three minutes.

Moshe Amsel: And if you want to follow up with them, you exchange information, you move on to the next one. So that's going to be a good, a nice highlight, a nice add on for the event. And then if you get a VIP ticket, you get a swag bag in the mail. There's a lot of things that we're trying to just pepper in. We're also working on entertainment.

Moshe Amsel: We want to entertain you, not just educate you. So I'm hopefully, and I'm not, we haven't announced any of this yet, but hopefully some musical entertainment, maybe some other kind of entertainment. We're going to be doing a grand prize giveaway at the end. We're going to be giving away some really.

Moshe Amsel: Cool stuff. We already announced we're giving away a Peloton, but there's going to be more. And and we're super excited about all of those things. So if you are interested in joining, the one thing that you don't want to do is sit on the fence and wait and decide later because the price goes up every week.

Moshe Amsel: And that's essentially what I think you wanted me to share every Monday. Every. Sunday night at midnight, we increment the price. And I got that model from Michael Stelzner, social media marketing. Marketing world is an event that he runs. And when he promotes the ticket, he essentially pot, [00:33:00] increases the price every week.

Moshe Amsel: And it just creates this feeling of, oh my gosh, I'm You know, there's a sense of urgency. And I'm trying to recreate that. However, we're behind the scenes. We're talking about raising the price of the VIP even more than that and stopping this incremental price raising. Regardless, the tickets are never going to be cheaper than they are right now, between now and February 9th.

Moshe Amsel: So you want to just go to do you have your URL? It's lawfirmgrossummit. com forward slash LFG pod. There you go. Law from gross summit. com for slash LFG pod. Yann will put it into the show notes, snag it's a ticket. I will not let you down. Yeah, I was going to

Jan Roos: say too, you're going to like the things you learn.

Jan Roos: I guarantee it. But I was going to say yeah, no, I also have to say to you, I always got a lot of reason to act now too. It's one of the things we've been finding a lot of success with the maybe something to consider your own law services, but we'll get to that in the breakout session.

Jan Roos: But. So Moshe, thank you so much for coming on. A lot of ideas in this podcast itself, but if you want any more [00:34:00] you know where to find it. So super appreciate the time and I'll see the rest of you guys next week at Tuesday on The Law Firm Growth podcast.

Moshe Amsel: Yeah. And Jan, I want to, first of all, thank you for having me and do my own close out here, folks, you guys are podcast listeners.

Moshe Amsel: If you haven't checked out the profit with law podcast, I'd love it if you gave us a spin too. I know you can only listen to so much. So drop some other stuff except for Jan's show and come over and listen to mine. But if you haven't heard of it, check it out. And if you like it, subscribe to it. But regardless, I'd love to see you at the event, February 9th.

Moshe Amsel: Jan, thank you for having me. And we'll see you guys soon.

Narrator: Thank you for listening to The Law Firm Growth Podcast. For show notes, free resources, and more, head on over to casefuel. com slash podcast. Looking forward to catching up on the next [00:35:00] episode.