Key Strategies for Growing a Law Firm

Law Firm Growth Podcast Episode 32: 789% Growth Through Networking Leveraging Power Partners, Mentorship and More with Josh Bonnici

Narrator: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Law Firm Growth Podcast, where we share the latest tips, tactics, and strategies for scaling your practice from the top experts in the world of growing law firms. Are you ready to take your practice to the next level? Let's get started.

Jan Roos: All right, everybody, welcome back to the Law Firm Growth Podcast. I'm your host, as always, Jan Roos, and I am here today with Josh Benici. for tuning in. from the Vinici Law Group. Really excited to have him today. This is another series of the fastest growing law firms in America. Josh was able to accomplish a 789 percent growth over the last couple years.

Jan Roos: Super impressive. And, you know, he's practicing a couple different types of law that a lot of people are interested in, like personal injury and social security. Disability litigation. So I'm really excited to hear what he has to say today. So thanks for being on the show, Josh. [00:01:00]

Josh Bonnici: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Josh Bonnici: Excited to be here.

Jan Roos: Awesome. So we kind of gave the the baseball card overview of but it's always good. We like to start off with kind of a background story of how you got to where you are today.

Josh Bonnici: During law school, I got all of my experience in a personal injury law firm down here in Southern California, worked there for about 3.

Josh Bonnici: 5 years, ended up leaving there, took a job with a marketing company. I was the only attorney on payroll there, and we actually worked exclusively with lawyers. selling legal marketing. Worked there for about a year, again, a bunch of different insight and business development ideas. Started my own practice at the end of 2012.

Josh Bonnici: And yeah, I'm actually celebrating seven years of my own practice here at the end of October.

Jan Roos: Yeah. It's a pretty interesting background. You don't hear a lot of, a lot of people that well, obviously you're a JD, but the thing is, Coming from a background of marketing, it usually seems to be one of those things that people will pick up later in their career.

Jan Roos: So that must have been a definite advantage to having a quick start in the practice.

Josh Bonnici: I thought it was. I [00:02:00] really, when I opened my practice, I tried hard to not make it like a firm but really aim it as a business that happens to practice law. Because I, I heard a stat, I don't know if it's a stat or just a fact a while back saying that law firms fail, but businesses succeed.

Josh Bonnici: So I've always kind of had my mantra being at, okay, our good is legal services, but we have to kind of look at it as a turning business, even though we're not selling widgets. And so far so good.

Jan Roos: Yeah, no, that's a great mindset. And I would say it's, it's kind of interesting. I've never heard that quote before about businesses succeeding in law firms failing, but given a lot of the advice that I feel like people are getting in law school these days, it kind of jives people seven years along the journey, probably aren't at the same trajectory that you are.

Jan Roos: I feel like most people end up paying the shingle kind of doing the referral thing for a while and then kind of gradually slowing up. So could you take us back to, you know, right after this time where you left the marketing company to, to open up the firm. What kind of stuff were you doing to get your first cases in the door?

Josh Bonnici: Well, I started using a lot of the contacts I made in [00:03:00] the marketing business cause I was mainly working with attorneys. So I kind of reached out to a lot of my Southern California contacts, started doing a little bit of contract work with them, mainly on the disability and injury side, and then just started networking my butt off.

Josh Bonnici: That's kind of where it got me where I, where I was when I left the marketing company was just kind of my grassroots getting to know. different attorneys and whatnot. And I just started having lunch and coffee with any attorney who would listen to me for 20 minutes, join a bunch of different networking groups and just tried to be the lawyer that everyone knew and liked.

Josh Bonnici: And, you know, tried to kind of foster those relationships on a personal level. Kind of a people person. So I really wanted to foster those relationships into business and referrals and then things just started growing from there. Once, you know, the feet were hitting the pavement every day, I was probably at a networking event three times a week or so for a while, but getting my name out there, getting [00:04:00] experience with my elevator pitch and, you know, really focusing on finding power partners for probably the first, at least two and a half years.

Jan Roos: Yeah. So a lot of work, but it ended up paying off. It seems like in the end. And I think it's kind of interesting. And tell me if this is right or not. I mean, if you're, if you were working with people that were retaining the marketing company, the attorneys that you were probably networking in those early days were probably a couple steps up than your average guy.

Jan Roos: I'd find it at BNI, I'm guessing.

Josh Bonnici: Yes. So most of the marketing I was selling was selling for tens of 1, 000 per campaign. So I was working with everyone from the solo practitioner who has a very well established, you know, business and been doing it for 30 years or the 50 attorney law firm, you know, really across the nation.

Josh Bonnici: That, you know, a billion dollar business, I was able to kind of glean some information from them, see what worked, see how they thought, see how they kind of processed, you know, marketing case retention, going from, you know, lead to intake to case [00:05:00] to you know, To either settlement or judgment and trying to put all those things together and you know, making the connections that I thought I needed to kind of get started here down in Southern California.

Jan Roos: Yeah, so basically you had not only sort of a case flow that was coming this, but also a bit of mentorship and some of these things that could take other people decades to figure out.

Josh Bonnici: Oh, 100%. I mean, there's, I mean, there's still mentors that I reach out to now that, you know, I, I, I jokingly say I dedicate part of my practice to them because they've been so instrumental and, you know, just helping me get my feet under me help me take some risks every once in a while and you know, kind of let me know that I'm not alone and just weird things happen, you know, when you're dealing with clients or marketing and just kind of keep that upward trajectory and focus.

Josh Bonnici: That was a huge help for sure.

Jan Roos: Yeah, just to kind of put a little parenthetical on that too. We recently just did an interview with our John Robbins from how to manage a small firm. And he said, you know, one of the most important things for leveling up your business and law practice is make sure the people that you're [00:06:00] talking to are at the level that you want to be in five or 10 years.

Jan Roos: You know, you don't really end up getting that perspective that from people that are on the same level. So it looks like you did that pretty well. Now, as far as getting cases go you know, Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Josh Bonnici: Well, I was going to say it's, I mean, that was a hundred percent right. One of my favorite questions to ask is if you were to start all over and you're in my position now, what are three things that you would do with all the knowledge you have now in, you know, case acquisition and client retention and just, you know, the business side of opening a law firm.

Josh Bonnici: And it's always interesting to hear what people have to say. Oh, so that's actually, so that was a question that you like, you like to ask people. My mentors, definitely. Yeah. When I, when I sit down with them, you know, with 25, 30 years of experience, okay. You know, looking backwards, what you know, what would you have changed?

Josh Bonnici: What would you done differently with the knowledge you have now? Yeah,

Jan Roos: it's kind of, that's actually a show. We've actually asked that question to show a couple of times too. So it's, it's funny. I think that's a really powerful question. It's like a great minds, hopefully, but okay. So, you know, you [00:07:00] got this point where you've got a lot of you know, Connections they've been working super hard to foster.

Jan Roos: And you know, I know you know, one of the big areas that you work in is personal injury law and I can, I know, I know San Diego is a super competitive market. So what are you doing to get people to refer you cases instead of keep the cases in house or refer to somebody who might be like, you know, 10 or 20 years ahead of you?

Josh Bonnici: Sure. You know, the big thing that I try to do and my, my belief on this is people send cases to people they like and they trust, right. And you know, I could probably tell you that I'm probably not the smartest personal injury attorney in San Diego. You know, I I do okay for myself, but you know, there's, there's guys here that I've been litigating cases for 40 years and they're phenomenal attorneys and I'll never take that away from them.

Josh Bonnici: But if I can be first of mine for someone that they like and trust you know, that's where I feel confident that I can get cases from other attorneys in town and other professionals. So you know, that's, that's kind of the big thing that I rely on. And differentiating myself and how I handle [00:08:00] clients.

Josh Bonnici: You know, they get my direct extension and email from the start. So they're not, you know, going through gatekeepers and coming through me. So that, that personal touch with clients. And I think those are two main reasons why people tend to send business to me you know, amongst others.

Jan Roos: Yeah. And it kind of, this is, this is something that's come up on, on some previous episodes.

Jan Roos: And I think there's kind of a dilemma. Cause I think, I feel like a lot of people can kind of get stuck at the networking phase of expanding their business because let's say you're going to those two, three networking meetings a week and you know, you're collecting, you know, let's call it five or 10 business cards every single time.

Jan Roos: And some of these are valuable contacts, but you continue to go to these different meetings. It kind of seems like there's this, this growing, growing pile of people that could potentially refer you. So what ways have you thought about that that end up having, you know, allow you to kind of get these these organized in a way that allows you to stay on top of these relationships, identify the best ones and make sure that this is working for you.

Josh Bonnici: The first two or three years of [00:09:00] my practice, you know, I went out and I did the business card collecting and I'd email people and let's meet for lunch and everything. And what I ended up doing is starting to kind of weed down people whom I connected with, whom I thought had just a traditional, what I like to call power partner relationship where, you know, they regularly see people who are.

Josh Bonnici: Ready to be clients of mine or you know, going to be or whatnot and kind of weed those down and then as I got busier and I, my time was more valuable. I would tend to focus on those people who are already sending me business or well established type of power partners. So a great power partner for us right now is a worker's comp attorney who doesn't handle personal injury, right?

Josh Bonnici: They're seeing clients who are, undergoing treatment for an injury, and that could turn over to either a personal injury case or it could turn over to a disability case. So now I may, you know, gravitate towards those people rather than the lone officer down the street who's probably a great person and probably talks to a lot of people.

Josh Bonnici: [00:10:00] But, you know, what my rolodex, I want a little more full and be a little more picky with people whom I think have more of a you know, Direct relationship with clients that I see and kind of the tried and true power partners. I already have. So now if I go to this kind of an open networking event, I'm usually not really looking to meet a whole lot of new people.

Josh Bonnici: I tried to find the people I know, and that kind of reminds me who they, who I am, you know, what I do to stay top of mind, and then I usually ask them for warm invites at that event to other people that they know and like and trust, because then I've got a warm invite. I don't have to worry about kind of cold calling a business card.

Josh Bonnici: And, you know, if. There's kind of synergy there that it's an easy thing to follow up on because we already have a mutual contact. It's been nice. I don't have that big stack of business cards on my desk anymore from events. Normally it might just be one or, you know, information I just personally exchange because I think it would be a good relationship to have in the business.[00:11:00]

Jan Roos: So you're going, you're going deep more than broad.

Josh Bonnici: Correct. Right. So, I tend to look for, you know, a handful of different people, either personalities or professions and try to weed away some of the business card pushers anymore. And try to go deep with those people because in my mind, if I've got five people who are committed, know me understand how to send me business.

Josh Bonnici: I don't have to constantly remind them or teach them how to send me clients. That's gonna pay more dividends because I can almost leave them for a couple of months at a time without Constant touches and writing them who I am, you know without them sending me people I just got a referral this morning for a trip and a fall and a fracture Locally here that I probably haven't talked to this attorney in a couple of months You know, he emailed me made the introduction It told me I was the first person he thought of, but I've been, I have a business relationship referral wise with this attorney for probably five years.

Josh Bonnici: But I know that what I've done in the past is solidified because he thought of me right [00:12:00] away without even seeing him for several months.

Jan Roos: Yeah. Well, that's awesome. And, you know, evidence to the fact that this approach is working. So switching gears a little bit. So, you know, we were kind of gotten through the early days where we're getting a lot of this you know, the cases coming in and stuff like that.

Jan Roos: So. Let's talk a little bit about when you started to expand the firm. So what point do you decide to start hiring out?

Josh Bonnici: So I decided to hire my first assistant and what I thought was three months too early because I knew that hiring someone and teaching them my systems and getting them plugged in was going to take a little bit of time.

Josh Bonnici: And I knew that I didn't need them right where I was sitting, but looking at kind of my, my ledger of cases that I was going to need people coming up, I had cases in litigation discovery that I needed to take care of. And so I hired somebody. Very beginning in 2013. A little earlier than I thought I would need them, but I got them ready to go set up and I was able to delegate a lot of administrative things to them so that it could free me up to just continue to go rain, make and, you know, focus on [00:13:00] clients.

Josh Bonnici: I hired, let's see. So from there. They had to leave. I hired another person in their place whom in 2014, who now actually works for me as an attorney because they were in law school. So she's been with me since 2014. And then I hired an assistant to replace her. She then graduated to be kind of our paralegal office manager.

Josh Bonnici: One of my law clerks passed the bar. He brought him on. And then we just recently hired a new assistant. So we're a team of five now, beginning of the year. So it's been a little bit of a rapid growth model, but kind of with the number of cases that we have coming in and the load it's, it's working out fine right now, the budget's crossing off and you know, I think we're, I think we're set for a while.

Josh Bonnici: I don't, I don't think I want to grow anymore. I think we found a kind of our good spot right now.

Jan Roos: Yeah, well, it's kind of interesting. We also had a recent podcast with Molly McGrath, who's a hiring [00:14:00] consultant. I mean, it seems like you kind of hit the, hit it right out of the gate as far as hiring the people that, that were supporting your sort of zone of genius.

Jan Roos: So basically, I mean, more or less you've been growing the firm in a direction where you can focus on the rainmaking, meeting those power partners, getting more cases into the door, right?

Josh Bonnici: Right. That's always kind of been my goal is to be, is to be that attorney who's kind of not necessarily behind the scenes, but focusing on what I think I do well and what I enjoy handling a handful of cases, you know, that I that I want to handle, but a majority of them are being handled by my associates whom I look over and my focus is on just, you know, that constant influx of, of leads coming in screening clients.

Josh Bonnici: So then once they're in, they're here and they get, you know, the same level of service that I would provide them through people I've been training since the beginning.

Jan Roos: Yeah. So let let's talk a little bit about intake. So this has certainly been something that's been happening a lot on the the case fuel side.

Jan Roos: One of the things that we've seen is that a lot of firms [00:15:00] are, you know, seeing a lot of slack being picked up and potentially tightening up their intake process. So, I know it seems like you guys have a really awesome system going on, whatever it is. So what's kind of the situation for when a lead ends up coming to the firm?

Jan Roos: I mean, obviously, you know, you have a lot of stuff to do. So I'm guessing you're not taking this personally, but what usually ends up happening when someone's calling? Well,

Josh Bonnici: We actually have a dedicated cell phone where new clients call in. So when you call our main number you know, it says if you're a new client looking for a free consultation, please dial extension one one one.

Josh Bonnici: When that phone rings, whoever is kind of holding that phone answers, puts down whatever they're doing, answers the phone so that we don't have to worry about chasing any leads back. And then we pretty much have a normalized intake system that we do to kind of evaluate the case. What type of case is it?

Josh Bonnici: How does liability look? You know, we have our checkmark, our checklist that we go through that usually takes about 10 minutes. Try to keep it short and sweet. And then if it's one of the attorneys who are handling the call, usually it is then they pretty much have discretion on whether or [00:16:00] not they want to bring that person in, sign them up over the phone or whatnot and get it started.

Josh Bonnici: We try to Keep everything within that initial call if we can ideally we schedule them to come in that day. My entire staff have control of my my calendar and they can make appointments for me if it's open. So if someone, if I'm on the other line, Someone's taking the call of a new client.

Josh Bonnici: They realize it sounds like a good case. They have the freedom to put that PNC on my calendar during an open spot for that day or the next day to get them in so that we can get things rolling. They give me the intake, I review it, and then usually have a follow up call to make sure they're coming in and new client comes in and we hope we find them up.

Jan Roos: Yeah, it's really interesting to see how that's come together. And for anyone who's kind of taking notes, you know, if growth is a priority in your law firm you know, you have to do with Josh. She's doing right here because if you know you're kind of reading between the lines here, and it seems like the priorities really here So if anyone is how has the ability to take a call you're getting them on the phone [00:17:00] with an attorney right away You're prioritizing getting everything done from an intake perspective and you're getting them in the office to actually close the deal Which is something that I feel it's so many people end up missing the mark on and you know Ultimately leads to less business So, you know if if if people say that priorities of growth you got to put your money where your mouth is and make it Actually a priority over other things I mean, speaking as far as the systems and processes, well, it seems like a lot of these things are pretty dialed in for your firm, Josh.

Jan Roos: So can you tell me how you sort of built these in transition from the point where you were handling this all and like growing this to a team that seems like it's running like a well oiled machine today?

Josh Bonnici: Well, you know, I, I read a bunch of marketing and business building books, and I mean, I think there's a, there's an easy consensus out there on, you know, the more things that you can process down and procedure arise, which, you know, I think I'm, I'm.

Josh Bonnici: probably making up a word, but I'll hold on to that for each part of your practice, I think is going to just pay dividends. I started making lists and okay, when I do this, this is how I would want intake to be done. [00:18:00] This is how I want a closing letter to a client after we settle a case to read and to feel and to see.

Josh Bonnici: This is what I want our welcome packet that we send out to kind of shock and awe new, new clients, how I want it to look, how I want to read. And so once I put that into a, you know, a one page procedural list, then hopefully if we've got somebody who buys into our system, it's happening the same every single time.

Josh Bonnici: And it's kind of foolproof. When we brought on our, our fifth employee she came on, didn't have any legal experience, which sometimes I actually like for when I'm hiring an assistant and we were able to plug her in with our procedural kind of handbook. And within two weeks, she was doing almost everything we needed her to do.

Josh Bonnici: Because she knew how to do it because she knew exactly what her what her position tasks were. How to do these things. So when I came up and I added something to her and said, Hey, here's a settlement check. I need a letter with a, you know, delivery to client. They know exactly what that means.

Josh Bonnici: They have the template in their system and all I have to do is sign off on the letter and it goes out. [00:19:00] So yeah, that's been one of the biggest important, yeah.

Jan Roos: So when you mentioned a couple of books, would you mind, what are your favorite books around the subject or anything else that you've found valuable?

Jan Roos: The duct tape

Josh Bonnici: marketing book, I really liked it. It's definitely not aimed at lawyers, but I think, you know, like I said, I tried to look at my, my company as a business, right? I enjoyed the email attorney book, of course.

Jan Roos: All right. And then the second thing too, is that, you know, I'm also kind of noticing as, as we, Go through this story.

Jan Roos: I'm not hearing about too many people not being a good fit for the firm So it seems like you might have hit on something right as far as the hiring process goes To get these people that are more or less ready to rock and two weeks like this example you had so Is there anything you can share with us as far as how you're finding these people, the hiring process you're using or anything to get like a, you know, solid team on under you?

Josh Bonnici: Well, I've been really fortunate with team that I've built. The two attorneys I have were working for me as an assistant or a clerk for about two years prior. So I knew [00:20:00] their work product, I knew their personality, we'd already kind of worked as a team to begin with. So those were kind of nice, easy shoe in.

Josh Bonnici: When I hire assistants, those are people that I have, I really have no relationship with, but I focus when I'm hiring an assistant who is not doing heavy legal work based on personality. And that's kind of two reasons that I focus on that. The first is I want them to gel with the team that I already have going, right?

Josh Bonnici: They could be the smartest and brightest person ever. But if they're not getting along with some of the other attorneys in my office they're, you know, being a cancer here, then it, you know, what good is that really doing? And second you know, I, I try to have a, try to mimic how I would handle and deal with clients on a, on a personal basis through my firm.

Josh Bonnici: So I want someone who's going to be compassionate. I want someone who's going to be A good listener to clients and have that good demeanor when speaking with our clients. So I think it's good for them to gel with our clients as well. [00:21:00] So that's one of the first things I focus on the assistance I've hired in the past.

Josh Bonnici: I think only one has had any legal experience and it wasn't in personal injury. And you know, I feel like with our procedural lists, I can teach you what you need to know. I'm not worried about that. They're not. You know, they're not putting together briefs. They're not filing motions for me. They're mainly kind of feet on the ground with clients, with insurance adjusters, and I can teach you how to do that, and it kind of falls in line once they buy into kind of our firm's mission and our goals that they see every day.

Jan Roos: You know, we're talking about a lot of soft skills here. Is this something that you're able to assess based on an initial interview? Or do you have any sort of like additional stages you get in before you're making a hire?

Josh Bonnici: Well, I usually get at least one or other, two other people in my office involved in interviewing.

Josh Bonnici: For instance when I've hired this last receptionist we put applications on a couple of just, you know, your normal hiring websites. We would get, you know, two or three dozen [00:22:00] applications back. But what I would do in the ad is I would make it kind of long on purpose. I want people to read through it and I would give really straightforward, but simple instructions on how to apply.

Josh Bonnici: Like I would literally have them put in I, I want the subject line of your email back to read. I am your rockstar. That's kind of my, my. Thing is I call my assistants, my rock stars. And if they don't put that in there, then I don't even open it because I know they can't follow instructions. Right?

Josh Bonnici: So if I have 25 applications that come through, I'm pretty confident that 17 of them will be clickable because some people just won't read. And then what I'll do is I'll say, you know, in your email that you title, I am your rock star. I want you to answer these four questions and they're easy kind of softball questions.

Josh Bonnici: You know, yeah. Name two or three things that you're good at. You know, what's a perfect day off for you? Things like that. So that I can kind of get to know them a little bit. See their casual writing style. And also see how much they give me. Are they just giving me a one line sentence about each thing?

Josh Bonnici: Because they're, you know, they're blazing through resumes. Or I know. Are they going [00:23:00] to sit there and actually put a little time into it and try to show personality. That's kind of what I want. So out of the 17, maybe 10 of those answered correctly. Then we have about a 10 minute phone call with my, one of my other assistants calls them and interviews them.

Josh Bonnici: And I, I bring them to my office after that, and I say, what'd you think? And she may say, well, you know, out of these 10, I really liked these four. Some of them I didn't click with, some were late, some didn't show. I said, okay, great. Bring those four into the office and we'll do interviews. And that's where, how I, I edit those down and you know, really kind of get a feeling for who these people are with already, you know, having a little bit of a sense of who they are.

Josh Bonnici: Before they even step in my office because they've answered questions. We've already had a telephone conversation and then we kind of get to see who they are in person and you know, have a little more of a conversation rather than a question and answer period once they're here.

Jan Roos: Yeah, that's, I mean, it's super, super clever.

Jan Roos: That's the first time I ever heard about actually using team members in the process to kind of assess how well [00:24:00] they'll gel, but that's a, that's a super good technique. So, all right, I think you mentioned not needing to hire for a little bit, but you know, besides that, like, you know, what's next for the firm?

Jan Roos: I mean, we've got some pretty serious growth in the last couple of years. What are you planning to do next?

Josh Bonnici: Well, I'm probably going to be restructuring a little bit on how each person, you know, each team member here is going to be handling different tasks. My goal is to really transfer over the beginning of the the new year To dealing mainly with business development, handing a lot of my cases out to my associates and really try to turn that up.

Josh Bonnici: I've got some pretty good some new ideas for next year some goals. So I think that's probably the next thing on the list. I'm not planning on, on growing too much more anytime soon. My, my office is full, so there's that. But, you know, a lot of my day is directing people here in the office to.

Josh Bonnici: I usually have an in law school intern or two also. So, you know, I have an open door policy where people can come in if [00:25:00] my doors open, ask me questions. So that does take up a lot of my time. I do want to hold on to a handful of cases at a time. I could see myself possibly hiring a paralegal in maybe two or three years.

Josh Bonnici: You know, if the case still kind of dictates that, but right now I think it's a good size. It's a good fit for kind of what I want to do moving into the future.

Jan Roos: Yeah. Well, it's kind of interesting to a lot of people when, when you talk about growth, it's like, you know, they have these really, and, and, you know, you've had some absolutely fantastic growth in the last three years, but it's actually really.

Jan Roos: Refresh to hear that, you know somebody say that that, that what they have is enough, you know, it's not something you hear a lot in the business world sometimes, but no, that's, that's super awesome. Now, as far as you know, if anyone wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way to to reach out?

Josh Bonnici: Well, my website is https://bonnicilawgroup.com/. And that'll probably be one of the better ways where we have a presence on Facebook as well. We handle all types of personal injury cases [00:26:00] in Southern California, as well as social security disability appeals and Arisa long term disability appeals all throughout the state of California.

Jan Roos: All right. Awesome. So yeah, if anyone's in the area and needs to reach out or anything related to that absolutely feel free to reach out. But Josh, thank you so much for taking the time. I think everyone else you know, if you're listening to this It's it's a rare almost a royal flush. We got here with a lot of systems process, good hiring, and of course the marketing that's ending up driving it.

Jan Roos: So definitely worth a listen that that's something that you guys are, well, definitely worth a realist. And like, I like to say, but thank you so much for coming on the show, Josh.

Josh Bonnici: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Jan Roos: All right. Thanks guys. And we'll, we'll be here next week with another episode of the law firm growth podcast.

Narrator: Thank you for listening to the Law Firm Grove podcast. For show notes, free resources and more, head on over to casefuel. com slash podcast. Looking forward to catching up on the next [00:27:00] episode.